Post by sojourner_stable on Nov 19, 2005 12:52:48 GMT -5
Here are the comments and results! Again, I'm just sharing my opinions and some of the things I've been told about showing models. I don't mean to put down anyone or their horses and it's totally fine if you disagree with me! If you'd like to discuss anything further, I'd be more than happy to!
Grand Champions:
1) Stallion Halter (1 entry)
1st place- CBS Neapolitan
First off, this photo is clear and well lit, the horse is the centerpoint of the picture and it's clear. (Fuzzy pictures are hard to see details in and affects how I personally place a class -if I can't see what I'm judging, how can I say if it's better than the other horses in the class?) Neapolitan has nice shading, his mane and tail are neat and he looks to be in good condition. Overall, I'd say he is a very attractive GC.
Now, problems that I would see with this picture. The biggest one, for me, is the fact that his hind legs are invisible from the hock down. In halter classes I try to judge as much as possible on conformation of the model and how well it conforms to breed standards, but if I can't see his legs, I can't compare him to the breed standard as well. If he were in a class with another horse and everything else about the pictures were equal, if I could see the other horse's back legs and determine that they fit that horse's breed standard, I would place that horse over this one. This would make a much better liberty photo than it would a halter photo, because in liberty conformation doesn't play as large a part as it does in halter.
I normally only start to look at setup and backgrounds as a last resort. If the horses in the pictures are perfectly equal, then I use backgrounds/any tack/setup as a tiebreaker. Here, while the log is a nice touch and I like it, the leaves on the ground and the branches in the background are out-of-scale for the horse, making him look more like a model and less like a real horse. To be more competive, I would suggest trying to put him in surroundings that are similar to the scale they would be in a real horse.
Breyers:
1) Stallion Halter (4 entries)
1st- Golden Sunset
2nd- El' Conquisador
3rd- Ibn-al-Laheeb
4th- Jet Deck
If you look at the conformation of the four horses entered, Golden Sunset, El' Conquisador and Ibn-al-Laheeb all have very good conformation for their breeds. Jet Deck, while a nice stock horse overall, has the point of his croup higher than his withers, which is often seen in young horses, but is generally considered a fault in a mature horse. (Except for harness breeds such as the Standardbred, whose higher croup allows them speed in harness. A higher croup than withers means the horse will have trouble dropping his hind end and getting underneath himself.) Also, his hooves are a bit small, which is common in Quarter Horses, but is not a particularly desirable trait because of the problems that usually come along with small feet. His photo is very good though, because the horse is clearly visible and the white background, combined with his dark bay coloring, really helps to make him stand out. The footing is also nice; it looks like neatly raked dirt and makes it possible that the horse has been stood near the arena wall for the picture to be taken -a realistic possibility. Although he is a nice horse, because all three other horses have better conformation than him, I placed him lower.
The second and third place photos were great, because both horses are from the same mold, which means unless they were repositioned (which these were not) or their legs warped (again, both have straight legs) they have the exact same conformation. Because of that, I looked at how well they conformed to breed standards next. Both Ibn-al-Laheeb and El' Conquisador have the proper body type and self carriage for Pintabians and Arabians, respectively, so I looked at body color. Bay is an accepted color for Arabians, but Pintabians are supposed to be tobiano patterned and Ibn-al-Laheeb (although a very gorgeous horse!) exhibits a tovero pattern.
His legs are white, he has ink spots, his visible eye is dark and his flanks/chest are colored as with tobianos, but his white markings don't have the typical smooth edges seen in tobiano. Instead, they are jagged and irregular as seen in the overo/sabino patterns and he has a bald face with irregular color, which is also typical of overo/sabino patterns. Together they produce a tovero pattern, which could, genetically be possible, but since the Pintabian Breed Registry requires a tobiano pattern, I counted against Ibn-al-Laheeb for exhibiting a tovero pattern, which is why he placed third instead of first or second.
(Had they been equal in breed type, I would have considered the backgrounds and would have placed Ibn-al-Laheeb over El' Conquisador.)
Golden Sunset and El' Conquisador are good because I would consider the models to be equal in conformation and breed type, leaving it up to the backgrounds to decide who places over whom. Golden Sunset's picture has a strip of gray at the very bottom, where the footing stops and some other material starts. If that were to be cropped out, he would win over El' Conquisador and that would be that. But, El' Conquisador also has a tiny problem with his footing -it shows a wrinkle or two where it was folded, which are distracting and made me realize it was carpet he's standing on. Because of this, I would then look for shadows, problems with finish, etc. In this case, El' Conquisador has visible shadows behind his head, tail and legs. While they could be seen in a real horse situation and I have no problem with realistically placed shadows, they are distracting. Since Golden Sunset has no such distractions in his photo, I placed him over El' Conquisador. (For more on shadows, see the footnote at the bottom)
2) Mare Halter (1 entry)
1st- CS Continental Contender
Nice picture overall, the horse is clear and easily visible, the lighting is good without being harsh and the footing isn't too bad. Conformational wise, this mare is correct, except for one thing -her hind legs are straight. In non-drafts, this is a good thing, but in many draft horses (including Clydesdales, which is this mare's breed) the breed standard specifies that horses are supposed to have their hocks set close together. (When they did farmwork, they wanted a horse that would step inside the furrow he was plowing and not into the ones next to him.) Other small things that could be fixed -the grass in the background is out of scale for the horse, making her look less real and more like a toy. Also, her hind hooves have sunk deeply into the sand; this makes it hard to see the angle of her hooves/pasterns/fetlocks.
3) Foal/yearling halter (1 entry)
1st- Wildwood Farm's foal
This is a big picture (which always helps judges!) and it clearly shows the cute foal being judged. The pattern is consistent with the "snowcap" pattern in spotted horses and the foal looks to be conformationally correct. To improve things, it would help if the photo were cropped enough to cut out the gray color at the bottom -this would also serve to make the horse fill more of the picture, which helps give a more polished and attractive appearance. In this case, there is a slight shadow behind the foal's head which I would try and get rid of. Because of the foal's dark bay color, the shadow blends with the profile of the foal's face, making it difficult to tell where the head stops and the shadow begins.
4) Pinto Pattern Halter (1 entry)
1st- Ibn-al-Laheeb
The color halter classes are always fun to judge because you are primarily judging the horse on color, then secondarily on conformation, breed type, etc. Basically, unless the horse has a gross anatomical problem, I won't count against them for conformation problems; I compare them on that if I can't decide between them based on their coat pattern. The most important thing here is that the horse exhibits whatever color and/or pattern that the owner has it listed as. If the horse is supposed to be a gray, I'd better not be looking at an obviously black horse! Ibn-al-Laheeb exhibits a very detailed and flashy tovero pattern, which is what he's supposed to be. The picture is well lit, has a nice background, a well-conformed horse, nice footing and pays attention to details -overall a great picture.
5) Spotted Pattern Halter (1 entry)
1st- Wildwood Farm's foal
6) Black/Bay/Brown/Chestnut/Sorrel Halter (2 entries)
1st- Jet Deck
2nd- El' Conquisador
Okay, I might have people frowning and wondering if I made a mistake -after all, in the first class El' Conquisador placed over Jet Deck. But this is a color halter class and horses are judged first on their color. Basically, that means the judge can pick whichever horse they think has a nicer color, unless the horse is completely atrocious in its conformation. I placed Jet Deck over El' Conquisador because in my opinion, Jet Deck has a richer bay color with better shading and highlights than El' Conquisador does.
8) Palomino/Buckskin/Cremello/Perlino/Other Color (1 entry)
1st- Golden Sunset
11) Gaited Breed Halter (1 entry)
1st- Golden Sunset
12) Light Breed Halter (2 entries)
1st- El' Conquisador
2nd- Ibn-al-Laheeb
13) Stock Breed Halter (2 entries)
1st- Wildwood Farm's foal
2nd- Jet Deck
In general, conformation of a foal is hard to determine, since their proportions are different to those of an adult horse. When I'm judging foals vs. adult horses, I usually pick conformation principles that remain constant and judge both the adults and the foals on those points only. Instead of being able to look at things like the length of the neck, where the neck ties into the chest, the proportion of the hindquarters, musculing, etc, I look at things that don't change. Are the legs straight? Are the joints large, flat and clean looking? Are there problems like tying-in, calf knees, sickle hocks, etc? Is there anything obviously wrong with the breed assignment the model has? (i.e. a Morgan foal should not have the heavier build/feathers a draft foal would have) When you look at the foal and Jet Deck, they are both correct, except for Jet Deck's problem of croup higher than withers. Because of this, I placed the foal over Jet Deck.
(FOOTNOTE: There is a controversial topic on shadows in the background, which I thought I'd bring up. Some people say any shadow at all is a fault and should be counted against, while other people say shadows are absolutely fine whenever and wherever they occur. I personally don't mind shadows, unless they make it really obvious that the model is standing in front of a background -a real horse would cast shadows on arena walls or fencing or the ground, so I don't count against that in models. But, if a model is casting a shadow on the background and their head is shadowing the sky, I would count against that since there is no way a real horse would ever have a shadow in the sky.)
I hope this was helpful for people! I really enjoyed explaining my placings -there will be a performance clinic show in the future, so heads up for that! Thanks to everyone that entered!
Erin
Grand Champions:
1) Stallion Halter (1 entry)
1st place- CBS Neapolitan
First off, this photo is clear and well lit, the horse is the centerpoint of the picture and it's clear. (Fuzzy pictures are hard to see details in and affects how I personally place a class -if I can't see what I'm judging, how can I say if it's better than the other horses in the class?) Neapolitan has nice shading, his mane and tail are neat and he looks to be in good condition. Overall, I'd say he is a very attractive GC.
Now, problems that I would see with this picture. The biggest one, for me, is the fact that his hind legs are invisible from the hock down. In halter classes I try to judge as much as possible on conformation of the model and how well it conforms to breed standards, but if I can't see his legs, I can't compare him to the breed standard as well. If he were in a class with another horse and everything else about the pictures were equal, if I could see the other horse's back legs and determine that they fit that horse's breed standard, I would place that horse over this one. This would make a much better liberty photo than it would a halter photo, because in liberty conformation doesn't play as large a part as it does in halter.
I normally only start to look at setup and backgrounds as a last resort. If the horses in the pictures are perfectly equal, then I use backgrounds/any tack/setup as a tiebreaker. Here, while the log is a nice touch and I like it, the leaves on the ground and the branches in the background are out-of-scale for the horse, making him look more like a model and less like a real horse. To be more competive, I would suggest trying to put him in surroundings that are similar to the scale they would be in a real horse.
Breyers:
1) Stallion Halter (4 entries)
1st- Golden Sunset
2nd- El' Conquisador
3rd- Ibn-al-Laheeb
4th- Jet Deck
If you look at the conformation of the four horses entered, Golden Sunset, El' Conquisador and Ibn-al-Laheeb all have very good conformation for their breeds. Jet Deck, while a nice stock horse overall, has the point of his croup higher than his withers, which is often seen in young horses, but is generally considered a fault in a mature horse. (Except for harness breeds such as the Standardbred, whose higher croup allows them speed in harness. A higher croup than withers means the horse will have trouble dropping his hind end and getting underneath himself.) Also, his hooves are a bit small, which is common in Quarter Horses, but is not a particularly desirable trait because of the problems that usually come along with small feet. His photo is very good though, because the horse is clearly visible and the white background, combined with his dark bay coloring, really helps to make him stand out. The footing is also nice; it looks like neatly raked dirt and makes it possible that the horse has been stood near the arena wall for the picture to be taken -a realistic possibility. Although he is a nice horse, because all three other horses have better conformation than him, I placed him lower.
The second and third place photos were great, because both horses are from the same mold, which means unless they were repositioned (which these were not) or their legs warped (again, both have straight legs) they have the exact same conformation. Because of that, I looked at how well they conformed to breed standards next. Both Ibn-al-Laheeb and El' Conquisador have the proper body type and self carriage for Pintabians and Arabians, respectively, so I looked at body color. Bay is an accepted color for Arabians, but Pintabians are supposed to be tobiano patterned and Ibn-al-Laheeb (although a very gorgeous horse!) exhibits a tovero pattern.
His legs are white, he has ink spots, his visible eye is dark and his flanks/chest are colored as with tobianos, but his white markings don't have the typical smooth edges seen in tobiano. Instead, they are jagged and irregular as seen in the overo/sabino patterns and he has a bald face with irregular color, which is also typical of overo/sabino patterns. Together they produce a tovero pattern, which could, genetically be possible, but since the Pintabian Breed Registry requires a tobiano pattern, I counted against Ibn-al-Laheeb for exhibiting a tovero pattern, which is why he placed third instead of first or second.
(Had they been equal in breed type, I would have considered the backgrounds and would have placed Ibn-al-Laheeb over El' Conquisador.)
Golden Sunset and El' Conquisador are good because I would consider the models to be equal in conformation and breed type, leaving it up to the backgrounds to decide who places over whom. Golden Sunset's picture has a strip of gray at the very bottom, where the footing stops and some other material starts. If that were to be cropped out, he would win over El' Conquisador and that would be that. But, El' Conquisador also has a tiny problem with his footing -it shows a wrinkle or two where it was folded, which are distracting and made me realize it was carpet he's standing on. Because of this, I would then look for shadows, problems with finish, etc. In this case, El' Conquisador has visible shadows behind his head, tail and legs. While they could be seen in a real horse situation and I have no problem with realistically placed shadows, they are distracting. Since Golden Sunset has no such distractions in his photo, I placed him over El' Conquisador. (For more on shadows, see the footnote at the bottom)
2) Mare Halter (1 entry)
1st- CS Continental Contender
Nice picture overall, the horse is clear and easily visible, the lighting is good without being harsh and the footing isn't too bad. Conformational wise, this mare is correct, except for one thing -her hind legs are straight. In non-drafts, this is a good thing, but in many draft horses (including Clydesdales, which is this mare's breed) the breed standard specifies that horses are supposed to have their hocks set close together. (When they did farmwork, they wanted a horse that would step inside the furrow he was plowing and not into the ones next to him.) Other small things that could be fixed -the grass in the background is out of scale for the horse, making her look less real and more like a toy. Also, her hind hooves have sunk deeply into the sand; this makes it hard to see the angle of her hooves/pasterns/fetlocks.
3) Foal/yearling halter (1 entry)
1st- Wildwood Farm's foal
This is a big picture (which always helps judges!) and it clearly shows the cute foal being judged. The pattern is consistent with the "snowcap" pattern in spotted horses and the foal looks to be conformationally correct. To improve things, it would help if the photo were cropped enough to cut out the gray color at the bottom -this would also serve to make the horse fill more of the picture, which helps give a more polished and attractive appearance. In this case, there is a slight shadow behind the foal's head which I would try and get rid of. Because of the foal's dark bay color, the shadow blends with the profile of the foal's face, making it difficult to tell where the head stops and the shadow begins.
4) Pinto Pattern Halter (1 entry)
1st- Ibn-al-Laheeb
The color halter classes are always fun to judge because you are primarily judging the horse on color, then secondarily on conformation, breed type, etc. Basically, unless the horse has a gross anatomical problem, I won't count against them for conformation problems; I compare them on that if I can't decide between them based on their coat pattern. The most important thing here is that the horse exhibits whatever color and/or pattern that the owner has it listed as. If the horse is supposed to be a gray, I'd better not be looking at an obviously black horse! Ibn-al-Laheeb exhibits a very detailed and flashy tovero pattern, which is what he's supposed to be. The picture is well lit, has a nice background, a well-conformed horse, nice footing and pays attention to details -overall a great picture.
5) Spotted Pattern Halter (1 entry)
1st- Wildwood Farm's foal
6) Black/Bay/Brown/Chestnut/Sorrel Halter (2 entries)
1st- Jet Deck
2nd- El' Conquisador
Okay, I might have people frowning and wondering if I made a mistake -after all, in the first class El' Conquisador placed over Jet Deck. But this is a color halter class and horses are judged first on their color. Basically, that means the judge can pick whichever horse they think has a nicer color, unless the horse is completely atrocious in its conformation. I placed Jet Deck over El' Conquisador because in my opinion, Jet Deck has a richer bay color with better shading and highlights than El' Conquisador does.
8) Palomino/Buckskin/Cremello/Perlino/Other Color (1 entry)
1st- Golden Sunset
11) Gaited Breed Halter (1 entry)
1st- Golden Sunset
12) Light Breed Halter (2 entries)
1st- El' Conquisador
2nd- Ibn-al-Laheeb
13) Stock Breed Halter (2 entries)
1st- Wildwood Farm's foal
2nd- Jet Deck
In general, conformation of a foal is hard to determine, since their proportions are different to those of an adult horse. When I'm judging foals vs. adult horses, I usually pick conformation principles that remain constant and judge both the adults and the foals on those points only. Instead of being able to look at things like the length of the neck, where the neck ties into the chest, the proportion of the hindquarters, musculing, etc, I look at things that don't change. Are the legs straight? Are the joints large, flat and clean looking? Are there problems like tying-in, calf knees, sickle hocks, etc? Is there anything obviously wrong with the breed assignment the model has? (i.e. a Morgan foal should not have the heavier build/feathers a draft foal would have) When you look at the foal and Jet Deck, they are both correct, except for Jet Deck's problem of croup higher than withers. Because of this, I placed the foal over Jet Deck.
(FOOTNOTE: There is a controversial topic on shadows in the background, which I thought I'd bring up. Some people say any shadow at all is a fault and should be counted against, while other people say shadows are absolutely fine whenever and wherever they occur. I personally don't mind shadows, unless they make it really obvious that the model is standing in front of a background -a real horse would cast shadows on arena walls or fencing or the ground, so I don't count against that in models. But, if a model is casting a shadow on the background and their head is shadowing the sky, I would count against that since there is no way a real horse would ever have a shadow in the sky.)
I hope this was helpful for people! I really enjoyed explaining my placings -there will be a performance clinic show in the future, so heads up for that! Thanks to everyone that entered!
Erin