Need pedigrees

[Blue Grass]

Okay, so I'm finally getting around to assigning bloodlines to my models. Pretty much all of them need pedigrees. Since my website is still under construction, I'll start with just a couple breeds. I may, however, want to have another of my horses be a parent to a model. I still need to look into that. So here are a few:

Fuchsia
A dapple grey Alter Real mare

December Quest
A dapple grey Alter Real Stallion

Machoni Revello
A dapple grey blanket appaloosa American Mustang mare

Symphony
A blue roan American Mustang mare

Hurcules
A champagne American Mustang stallion

Hiawatha
A dapple grey American Mustang stallion

Imperial Venom
A red roan American Mustang stallion

P'izon
A buckskin American Mustang stallion

The Ghost Maker
A buckskin tobiano American Mustang stallion

Tinago(possibly changing his name)
A blue roan sabino American Mustang stallion

Please post if you have any horses of these breeds available for breeding. Like I said, I still need to look through my horses for possible parents as well. I am also willing to look through your websites at other breeds. Thank you!

[Rebekka]

little information alter real is bay always. condelaria nacional suits better to your greys or just any other strain of lusitano

[Blue Grass]

I'm a little confused. The Smithsonian Handbook of Horses says that Alter Reals can be bay, brown, and grey. Apparently there's something I'm still misunderstanding. So could you please explain further? And please let me know where you got your information--I'd like to read it myself. Thanks!

[Dorian Park]

I've always thought that Alter Reals were only bay too. Since they are a strain of Lusitano, would your horse suit that better perhaps?

As far as I can remember the Alter Reals are only bred at one particular stud (in Spain, somewhere?) and at one stage were nearly wiped out completely.

Google should help.

[pookaa]

Feb 28, 2012 0:27:38 GMT -5 Dorian Park said:

I've always thought that Alter Reals were only bay too. Since they are a strain of Lusitano, would your horse suit that better perhaps?

As far as I can remember the Alter Reals are only bred at one particular stud (in Spain, somewhere?) and at one stage were nearly wiped out completely.

Google should help.

Yep - that's what I've found. The stud is in Portugal.

Cheers,
Kay

[pookaa]

Feb 26, 2012 17:11:44 GMT -5 Blue Grass said:

Okay, so I'm finally getting around to assigning bloodlines to my models. Pretty much all of them need pedigrees. Since my website is still under construction, I'll start with just a couple breeds. I may, however, want to have another of my horses be a parent to a model. I still need to look into that. So here are a few:

<snip>

Please post if you have any horses of these breeds available for breeding. Like I said, I still need to look through my horses for possible parents as well. I am also willing to look through your websites at other breeds. Thank you!

No Alter Reals, but I have Mustangs that might do. You will need to watch the color genetics to get the right combinations. :-)

Website here: www.diddakoi.com/cdm/cdm.htm

Color Calulator here: www.horsetesting.com/CCalculator1.asp

Cheers,
Kay

[Blue Grass]

Thanks, guys, for the info! I'll do some more research! Kay, do know what the stud farm is called, or if it has a website?

Thanks for posting your website! I'll have a look!

[Rebekka]

I have Lusitanos thou if you are intrested about Veiga sub-type, you need to check it up before you deside.

hem.bredband.net/rebdam/lusitanos.html

I have still work to write up some I have bred cause Im having still much paperwork with all breeds, so just ask and I tell if its possible.

[Blue Grass]

Feb 28, 2012 0:27:38 GMT -5 Dorian Park said:

I've always thought that Alter Reals were only bay too. Since they are a strain of Lusitano, would your horse suit that better perhaps?

As far as I can remember the Alter Reals are only bred at one particular stud (in Spain, somewhere?) and at one stage were nearly wiped out completely.

Google should help.

One more question though: can Alters have the grey gene?

[Rebekka]

as far as I know alter real are bred for color bay, any other colors are culled out and not even get branded as AR
if you go at shows grey as alter real I think you will get always told they are bay.
why not instead take coudelaria nacional lusitano that is always grey that would give you models best success.

[Blue Grass]

I'm just confused because most of the many websites I've looked at list grey as an Alter Real color--and if they don't list grey, they nearly always list black, chestnut, and/or brown. I've only found a couple that say only bay, but the majority say otherwise.

Thanks for the suggestion about making them Coudelaria Naciounal Lusitanos-- I'll think about it.

[Dorian Park]

I did a little bit of digging, but don't have much time right now.

Just about all of the 'trustworthy' websites I have found say that Alter Reals can only be bay, and that they can only be a legitimate Alter Real if born at the Alter Real State Stud in Portugal, which only breeds bays. It says on the Lusitano Horse Association of Australasia that the Alter Real is bay only.

But, I did find one account of a person who thought that their grey horse was an Alter Real, and apparantly it has the Alter Real brand, but there is no photo or further discussion of that individual horse.

I also found this:

"The Alter Real is handled just like the rest of the Lusitano breed by the Portuguese National Stud. Compared to most other Lusitanos, the Alter Real may be a bit more refined and also a little smaller on average. The breeding goal is not much different from that of other Lusitano breeders, and includes a square frame, a strong back, rounded forms, good balance, proud action. Head profiles vary from straight to convex. Recent years have seen another outcross with Spanish stallions, some of them even gray, so that the Alter is not always brown or bay anymore, which is a shame."

BUT I can't find a photo of a grey Alter Real. (I did find an amazing cremello Lusitano...) I'd say that if you can get a photo of a grey, clearly showing the Alter Real brand you're set.

The brand:

If you can't find solid proof, it may just be easier to go with another strain. You don't want to be disqualified from shows all the time.

Sorry I can't help much further.

[Gubbera Park]

It does seem a shame that they've outcrossed...... so much for the pure breed.

[Blue Grass]

Mar 12, 2012 21:29:20 GMT -5 Dorian Park said:

I did a little bit of digging, but don't have much time right now.

Just about all of the 'trustworthy' websites I have found say that Alter Reals can only be bay, and that they can only be a legitimate Alter Real if born at the Alter Real State Stud in Portugal, which only breeds bays. It says on the Lusitano Horse Association of Australasia that the Alter Real is bay only.

But, I did find one account of a person who thought that their grey horse was an Alter Real, and apparantly it has the Alter Real brand, but there is no photo or further discussion of that individual horse.

I also found this:

"The Alter Real is handled just like the rest of the Lusitano breed by the Portuguese National Stud. Compared to most other Lusitanos, the Alter Real may be a bit more refined and also a little smaller on average. The breeding goal is not much different from that of other Lusitano breeders, and includes a square frame, a strong back, rounded forms, good balance, proud action. Head profiles vary from straight to convex. Recent years have seen another outcross with Spanish stallions, some of them even gray, so that the Alter is not always brown or bay anymore, which is a shame."

BUT I can't find a photo of a grey Alter Real. (I did find an amazing cremello Lusitano...) I'd say that if you can get a photo of a grey, clearly showing the Alter Real brand you're set.

The brand:

If you can't find solid proof, it may just be easier to go with another strain. You don't want to be disqualified from shows all the time.

Sorry I can't help much further.

Thanks! I did see that website, but I'm not entirely sure what it means by "Recent years have seen another outcross with Spanish stallions, some of them even gray, so that the Alter is not always brown or bay anymore, which is a shame."

I did some looking, and did not find any photos of grey Alters. I haven't looked a whole lot, but I am not thinking I'll find any. I'll look into it some more, and look at other breeds. Thanks again for your help!

[Rebekka]

Alter real line are from spanish lines orginally and second bloodline came when it was nearly gone and destroyed by another breeds blended in, thats why it says another outcross.
sadly real alter reals where nearly gone when breed was rescued and then destroyed with crossing in other breeds, weakening alter reals conformation some and it got hotter.
also Alter real is called poormans Lusitano cause of weaker quality than at pure bloodlined lusitano.

I would really go with Coudelaria Nacional, it giving right color and good quality Lusitano.
I had planned do actually all lusitano sub types but I havent had time since last year was destroyed by mine and my cats sicknesses. since I lost her I havent either taken it up yet to work on it.